Gurdwara Singh Sabha – London East
722/730 High Road,
Seven Kings, Ilford, Essex IG3 8SX
A former Telecom Building, now a Gurdwara
Guru Nanak Satsang Sabha Karamsar UK
400 High Road,
Seven Kings, Ilford, Essex IG1 1TW
This specially imported stone from Rajastan is beautiful
Not only the stone but also the stoneworkers were imported.
Apparently the Gurdwara made sure that all the workers returned to Rajastan.
What a pity that this beautiful Gurdwara is a Dera
The Southall Community Centre
20 Merrick Road
Southall UB2 4AU
The Southall Community Centre was sold (as far as I know) by the London Borough of Ealing to Gurmail Singh (former owner of the Monsoon Banquetting Hall, still owner of GB Windows). The building is still there, I think it is still being used. It also still does look quite dilapidated from the outside and although I have not been inside for about a year, I have seen no sign of any work carried out to improve the interior of the building.
I think, but I might be wrong, that there was an understanding or maybe even a deal, between Gurmail Singh and Ealing that the building would continue to be used as a community centre and that the building would be maintained and/or improved.
Questions :
Harjinder Singh
Man in Blue
We are deeply saddened and shocked over the recent incident that took place in Vienna, Austria and the subsequent rioting in Punjab. Our thoughts and prayers are with the Sikh families and friends of those affected by this incident. Any loss of life is regrettable whether in Vienna or Punjab.
All concerned need to ensure that incidents, like the one in Vienna and the violent reaction against Sikhs in Punjab that followed are not allowed to occur again. This will only happen if we take a hard look at the facts that have still to emerge about why the situation arose in Vienna in the first place and what was done by the authorities in Punjab to maintain calm and prevent attacks against Sikhs.
The incident in Vienna and reaction in Punjab have brought back many memories. Firstly the memory of 13 April 1978 when thirteen innocent Sikhs were killed for peacefully demonstrating against a fake Nirankari baba for showing disrespect towards the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Secondly, the memory of the events from 25 years ago; when innocent Sikhs were deliberately targeted and killed.
Many hearing about the incident in Vienna or unsubstantiated rumours have immediately jumped on the popular bandwagon to condemn the attack that took place on Sunday without establishing the full facts. This includes the possibility that three local Amritdhari Sikhs, simply wearing their Kirpans, may have been shot dead by Indian security agents providing armed protection to the two so-called self-proclaimed gurus visiting Austria. A fourth local Sikh is believed to be in a serious condition in hospital with bullet wounds to the head.
Rumours abound as to why the incident took place in Vienna, including local tensions that existed. For example, there is talk of an incident a week earlier when a local Sikh man was supposedly attacked by thugs at the same location in Vienna for peacefully complaining about disrespect towards the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The local Sikh man is believed to have been left with life threatening injuries and subsequently died in hospital of the wounds inflicted.
The media has largely been silent on the killing of Sikhs in Vienna by Indian security agents with the use of illegal firearms. Ironically the only statement in the media on the killing of three Sikhs has come from the Indian police itself. The media has also failed to report on whether a serious incident took place a week earlier that may have relegated the incident in Vienna to a local dispute that got totally out of hand by the over reaction of Indian security agents.
There are however a number of hard truths that many of those making statements to the media have avoided to mention. It is well-known that the two so-called self-proclaimed gurus visiting Austria described by one Austrian politician as `problem gurus’ that should not have been allowed to enter the country to preach hate, were partaking in activities disrespectful of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. One possibility is these `problem gurus’ sealed their own fate through their offensive actions and continued disrespect towards the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The likes of the SGPC and those that promote and protect these `problem gurus’ must shoulder the blame for what has happen due to their inaction.
There has been extensive misreporting about the Sikh faith by the media following the incident in Vienna. The repeated mistake made by the media is the failure to recognise Sikhs do not have a living human Guru. Instead the Sikhs eternal Guru is the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which includes the teachings of Bhagat Ravi Dass and this has been the case for over 300 years.
The tenth and last human Guru, Guru Gobind Singh Ji was unequivocal when he stated: “Sab Sikhan ko hokam hai Guru Manyo Granth” meaning “All Sikhs are commanded to take the Granth as Guru”. Sikhs throughout the world last year celebrated the 300th anniversary of the ending of the concept of the human Guru and the gurudom passing to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Nonetheless these `problem gurus’ have been encouraged to continue to stir up matters and have been provided armed Indian government protection while in India and abroad.
The media also continue to provoke the situation by portraying the Vienna incident as an issue linked to caste. However, by definition a Sikh is one who believes in one God, the teachings of the ten Sikh Gurus and their utterances contained in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji; and believes it is necessary to take Amrit by Khanda-ki-Pahul bequeathed by the tenth Guru. Those that understand the Sikh faith know those who take Amrit and become part of the Khalsa are deemed to be equal and the Sikh Gurus finished the caste system, which continues to be linked to the Hindu faith and way of life.
Jaspal Singh
National Press Secretary
My journey started in Southall from where I took bus 120 to Northolt. From Northolt I went west to West Ruislip and on this post I will go back east past Northolt to Greenford to change to the Greenford Branch of First Great Western (local).
This looks like West Ruislip station doesn’t it ?
Looking through the glass partition to the Central Line train, behind it, as we will see in following pictures, the Chiltern Railways platforms.
West Ruislip, Chiltern Railways platform
One train an hour in each direction, the other slow train stops at South Ruislip only. What a way to serve the public ! Both trains should stop at both stations or Chiltern Railways should give up South Ruislip and serve West Ruislip two times an hour. Even that is a very low frequency for an important interchange station like this.
Greenford Station, First Great Western and Central Line
On the right an east bound Central Line train, on the left the Greenford Paddington train, 2 times an hour only. There is only one platform, with through tracks on both sides for the Central Line, with a middle track for the First Great Western.
The Central Line has gone on its way to parts east
A glimpse of train, platform, Greenford station sign, east bound tracks and bushes !
Seeing a west bound Central Line through the windows of a First Great Western DMU
Will be continued
Also visit
Trains, Trams, Metro, Underground, buses and more
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12445197@N05/sets/72157611244941713/
London Overground
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12445197@N05/sets/72157614139538921/
Army out to restore peace
Three killed in day-long violence in 4 cities under curfew
Prabhjot Singh, Tribune News Service
Chandigarh, May 25. Punjab plunged into angry protests, violence and vandalism today before recovering by evening. The violence followed reports that Sant Ramanand ( 57), shot in Vienna on Sunday, had succumbed to his injuries. Angry followers of Guru Ravidas, mostly Dalits, hit the streets, torched trains, set vehicles on fire and set up road blockades, throwing normal life completely out of gear. They defied the curfew imposed on entire districts of Jalandhar, Hoshiarpur, in Patiala and in Ludhiana, abducted a policeman and tried to lynch another.
Sant Ramanand, tipped to take over from Sant Niranjan Dass (68) the task of heading ‘Dera Sach Khand’, died in a hospital in the Austrian capital on Monday. The condition of Sant Niranjan Dass, head of the sect who was also injured in the attack, was, however, said to be stable after an emergency surgery.
Protests also spread to neighbouring Haryana, where sect followers felled trees and blocked National Highway No. 1. Security forces had to open fire to bring the situation under control. According to reports received till evening, two persons are said to have died in the day-long violence, two of them in the firing.
The state government is also learn to have informed the Election Commission its inability to conduct the Nurmahal Assembly by-election
Road and railway movement was crippled in Jalandhar and adjoining areas as protesters blocked the National Highway between Jalandhar and Phagwara, between Ludhiana and Panipat and also between Ambala and Delhi. Railway traffic between Delhi and Jammu was also crippled as the mob set fire to a train in Jalandhar Cantonment Railway Station and vandalised railway property. At Jammu railway station, Railways ran out of cash for refunding fare to passengers and a large number of them were stranded on Monday evening.
The bus between Delhi and Lahore was stopped at Ludhiana as a precautionary measure. But the Lahore-Delhi bus was escorted from Amritsar to Delhi via Moga because of a Pakistani child with a hole in his heart and travelling to Delhi for surgery.
Deployment of the Army and the police brought the situation somewhat under control and by evening the situation appeared to be improving despite reports of sporadic violence in some parts of the state. The Shiromani Akali Dal called for a state-wide bandh to condemn the act of violence in Austria and parties called for restrain.
At a number of places in Ludhiana, Phagwara, Jalandhar, Nakodar, Nawan Shahr, Amritsar, Ambala, and Yamunanagar, angry demonstrators not only torched trains, government buses and private vehicles but also resorted to widespread violence damaging both private and public property. The normal life throughout the region remained disrupted as the security forces had a tough time in preventing arsonists from wreaking havoc.
The Doab, specially Jalandhar, Nakodar, Phagwara and parts of Nawan Shahr are the strongholds of followers of Guru Ravi Das sect.
To condemn the Vienna incident and the death of Sant Rama Nand, the SAD chief Sukhbir Singh Badal, appealed to people of Punjab for a peaceful bandh today.All business establishments remained closed.The entire state was fortified with deployment of security forces.
Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal and other leaders, while condemning the Vienna incident, hoped that stringent punishment would be given to the perpetrators of the crime in Austria who not only disturbed a religious congregation but also used firearms and lethal weapons.
Posted by Livia Kaur to Sikh News Discussion, 25 May 2009
‘Europe has much better justice than India. Why doesn’t India see to it’s 1984 or other justice problems. Austrian justice will give justice.’
Thank you, Livia Kaur
http://www.littleabout.com/news/14830,india-bring-culprits-vienna-violence.html
New Delhi, May 25 – ANI: External Affairs Minister S. M.Krishna on Monday said the Indian Government would take all necessary steps to bring the culprits of the Vienna violence to justice. In a statement issued in response to questions on the attack in a gurudwara in Vienna, Austria, Krishna said: Since it was first reported, my ministry has been carefully monitoring developments following the attack in the gurudwara yesterday afternoon (local time) in Vienna.
Our Charge d’Affaires ad interim in Vienna has been in regular contact with the ministry. At the very outset, I would like to convey my deep condolences at the unfortunate passing away of Sant Rama Nand who had been seriously injured in the attack and succumbed to injuries around midnight local time. Our Mission in Vienna will make necessary arrangements to enable his body to be brought back home.
The attack in the Gurudwara in Vienna is a matter of deep concern and regret, especially since many people have been injured and Sant Rama Nand has lost his life. There is no place for violence in a secular society like Indias and certainly no excuse whatsoever for the violation of the sacred premises of a gurudwara for narrow sectarian or other purposes.
Our embassy in Vienna is in close contact with the Austrian Foreign Office, the Viennese police and the Austrian authorities. We are receiving the cooperation of the Austrian authorities and are determined to ensure that the perpetrators of this completely mindless and wanton attack are brought to justice.
My Ministry is continuing to monitor developments and necessary follow up action will be taken. Violence flared up across Punjab yesterday and on Monday when news of clashes between two different Sikh groups in a gurudwara in the Austrian capital filtered in. The violence in Vienna occurred soon after the second in command of the Dera Saccha Khand Baland (a Sikh school of thought), Sant Ramanand and Sant Niranjan Dass were invited to deliver a sermon at the gurudwara.
They were allegedly assaulted by at least six followers of the gurudwara with knives and guns. Over 20 people were injured in the attack. Sant Ramanand, 57, later succumbed to injuries in a hospital. The condition of Sant Niranjan Dass, 68, was described as stable after undergoing emergency surgery. Expressing sorrow over the killing of Ramanand, Krishna said: “There is no excuse whatever for the violation of sacred premises of the gurudwara to sub serve narrow sectarian interests and other purposes.” – ANI
Geoffrey Bindman reviews an old case that has recently become topical
This year [2008, HS] is the 25th anniversary of the decision of the House of Lords in Mandla v Dowell-Lee (1983) 1 All ER 1062, in which a Sikh schoolboy was refused admission to a private preparatory school because he would not remove his turban. The Lords reversed a decision of the Court of Appeal and held that Sikhs were entitled to the protection of the Race Relations Act (RRA 1976).
This judgement was recently commemorated at the annual conference of the Metropolitan Police Sikh Association in the presence of the boy, Gurinder and his father Sewa Singh Mandla. Fortunately, Gurinder suffered no lasting ill-effects : another school was quickly found for him where there was no objection to his traditional headdress. Now in his thirties, he is a partner in the solicitors’ firm founded by his father in Birmingham.
RRA 1976 prohibits discrimination on grounds of colour, race or ethnic or national origins in education, as well as other aspects of life. When the Mandla case arose, the only other prohibited ground of discrimination was sex, more accurately gender.
Anti-discrimination law has subsequently been extended to disability, sexual orientation, age and religion. All these and a general human rights responsibility were last year combined together under the supervision of the new Equality and Human Rights Commission.
When, in July 1978, Mandla decided to enter Gurinder at Park Grove School, he told the headmaster that he wished his son to be brought up as an orthodox Sikh and to wear the turban. The headmaster said this would be against school rules requiring the wearing of a uniform which could not include the turban. Mandla complained to the Commission for Racial Equality (CRE) that the school had discriminated against him and his son in breach of RRA 1976. I was the CRE’s legal adviser and its solicitor. The CRE had power to assist complainants to bring proceedings. Once a decision to do this had been made, it became my job to steer them through the courts.
Ethnic Origins
Of course, there was undoubtedly discrimination. Mandla’s son was excluded while other applicants were accepted. The ground of that exclusion was Mandla’s insistence on the wearing of the turban. But was the discrimination on the ground of ‘ethnic origins’ ? Were Sikhs an ethnic group, or only a religious group without an ethnic identity ? If the former, the law was breached. If the latter, the school’s action, however harsh, was lawful.
There was no obvious answer. While most Sikhs could establish ancestral links with the Indian sub-continent, and even with a particular area in which Sikhism was said to have originated, many could not, and there were converts from all races and parts of the world. The one common feature was observance of religious traditions and customs.
The CRE had no doubt that the refusal of the school to allow turbans to be worn by its pupils was unjust and unreasonable. To exclude the whole Sikh community from the protection of the law was unacceptable. But, to persuade a court that Sikhs were a group with a common ethnic origin was going to be an uphill struggle.
Proceedings were commenced in the Birmingham County Court. As RRA 1976 required, the judge sat with two lay assessors, persons appearing to have special knowledge and experience of race relations. But the decision was for the judge alone. He ruled in favour of the defendant. We appealed to the Court of Appeal where Lord Denning and two other judges upheld the county court decision.
Unfortunately, the elderly Lord Denning was not at his best when issues of race came before him. He did not like RRA 1976 and thought the CRE should not have pursued the case. While the decision itself was etymologically defensible, he caused offence by appearing to put Sikhs in the same category as Communists and hippies – groups against whose members it would, in his view, be equally lawful to discriminate. His remarks led to widespread protests, including a demonstration in Hyde Park in which thousands of Sikhs participated. Ministers promised that if the House of Lords allowed the decision to stand, they would consider legislation to correct it.
Shared Common Heritage
However, an appeal to the House of Lords succeeded. They decided it was enough that in general Sikhs could establish a long shared common heritage and cultural tradition, a common language and literature and an identity as a minority within a larger community. They rejected the discredited Denning notion of ethnicity and his criticism of the CRE. We now know race has more to do with perceived identity, based on several factors, than to any supposed biological connection.
Yet, there remain problems in prohibiting discrimination on religious grounds. Whereas it is right to say that all racial distinctions are arbitrary and should not impede access to what is normally available to the citizen, freedom of religious belief and expression is also a human right. That is why the introduction of religion into anti-discrimination law has caused controversy, and has been subjected to limits to protect that freedom.
The racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, introduced partly to remove some of the anomalies highlighted in the Mandla case, makes it clear that nothing in it is to be read as restricting discussion and criticism of religious beliefs or practices.
Doubtless the debate on prohibiting religious discrimination is not yet over. Meanwhile, we should continue to celebrate Mandla as a landmark in the law which protects members of the Sikh community against unfair discrimination.
I am typing this article from a leaflet that I found in the Central Gurdwara, Shepherd’s Bush. I type and read, and read again, but please if you find any mistakes let me know !
As my readers know I am on a mission to have pictures and addresses of all London and all West Midlands Gurdware on my flickr photo account.
I have lived the life of a Sikh since January 1996 and took Amrit in July of that year. The first four years I lived in Panjab, since 2000 I have been in the UK, with occasional excursions to the continent. I like visiting Gurdware, wherever I go, it is interesting to meet with sangat in Chennai, Delhi, Ludhiana, Bristol, St Truiden or Woolwich. I am not the most popular chap with some prabandhaks, and I consider prabandhaks with a healthy amount of scepticism. Because of this the sangat usually welcomes me, committee walas tend to be less enthusiastic.
Please read on and find out what happened on 23/05 when I visited the Woolwich Ramgarhia Sabha.
This is a picture that I took during a previous visit, when I did not enter the Gurdwara premises
When I came out of Woolwich Arsenal Station on Saturday 23/05 I consulted my A – Z. I could see the Gurdwara, but was not sure about the shortest route to get there. A friendly Sikh lady showed me the way and walked to the building with me. I arrived at about 14.30, went upstairs, took off my chappels, washed my hands and went into the divan.
I went in, paid my respects, put a modest contribution in the golak and sat down. Istria Sat Sang was taking place, but some men were present too. I took a picture of the ladies to my left and of the men to my right, which will eventually appear on my flickr account. By about 14.45 I got up, took this picture of the divan on the way out and went downstairs to the langar.
In the langar I had a drink and ate an apple, took two more pictures and decided to start making my way back, as I was due at Heathrow later in the afternoon and wanted to leave my A – Z and a few other bits and pieces in my flat in Southall, to lighten my load.
I should never have stopped to take this photograph of the door and the sign above it. If I had gone out and walked to the station straight away I would not have to report this shocking story.
While I took this picture one of the Prabandhaks came out and started talking to me. First I did not think anything of it, then he started talking about the Harley Grove Gurdwara, and very soon after that he implied that I was in some way connected with it and that I had similar plans for the Woolwich Gurdwara.
I was shocked, I was upset and I was angry, and let that be known. He insisted on calling the police, which left me with no choice but to hang around till the police had come. Whatever my options were I did want not to give the impression that I was fleeing the scene of my alleged ‘crime’ (taking a few pictures of a Gudwara). Stupidly I went back into the Gurdwara, into the room in which the full committee seemed to be gathering. They kept ordering me about and whatever I said they did not believe. They also kept saying that I just dressed up as a Sikh, and made references to my friends, without specifying which friends they had in mind.
I got very fed up with the company I was keeping and tried to push my way past the chief bully, the same chap who started the trouble, but as I am only 10 stone and he considarably more I had not a hope. They then accused me of assault. I was pushed to the ground, my hand was bleeding and I got a few bruises on my legs, but nothing to worry about.
The police arrived and were much better behaved, but insisted on searching me quoting article 44 of the terrorism act. As this was a complete nonsense, whatever the merits of my case there was no question of terrorism, but they insisted and put handcuffs on me. I had shown the police the pictures I took, which you can see above, and which should have made it perfectly clear that these pictures were not related to any terrorist act.
I should have been calmer, I should have stayed outside the Gurdwara and waited for the police there, but I hope that my readers understand how bad it feels when you are accused and treated in this way by fellow Sikhs. I am used to being insulted by English people, I do not like it, but it does not hurt. This did hurt, it hurt a lot, much more than the minor physical injuries I sustained.
Does anybody know anything about the Prabandhaks of this Gurdwara ?
Recording of ‘Stop and Account’
From Form 5090 (X)
Family name: Singh Heule
First Name(s): Cornelis Harjinder
Gender: M DoB : 06051947
EA Code : 1 [no further action]
SDE Code : N4 [?] Height : 6′ 3”
Address: Portland Road, Southall UB2
Stop & Account : Possession of an item
Search Ground: Male searched after seen taking photographs of Gurdwara. Found by occupiers who believed suspicious. PC ( number)
Stop/Search : 23/05/2009 Time : 15.25 Location : Masons Hill SE18
Stop Only Code : T [Terrorism s. 44] Search Code : J [Terrorism s. 44]
Person only : [box ticked]
Warrent/Pay N0 : 227312 B(OCU): RW Team Unit : 4
Beware : if you take a picture of a Gurdwara and the Gurdwara management thinks that you are suspicious it can lead to you being stopped and searched under terrorism legislation. Isn’t that wonderful ! All this in a country that lectures others on human rights.
For those from Woolwich still doubting my story, visit my flickr account and see all the Gurdwara Pictures :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12445197@N05/sets/72157611278213681/
Curfew in Jalandhar as mob goes on rampage
Amarjit Thind & Bipin Bhardwaj
Tribune News Service
The Trigger
At least 11 persons were injured, nine of them seriously when two groups of Sikh worshippers clashed with knives and handgun at a gurdwara in Vienna on Sunday. Among the injured were Sant Niranjan Dass and Ramanand, chief and deputy chief of the Guru Ravi Das Sabha Gurdwara, respectively. All assailants were overpowered by the Vienna police. There was an old rivalry between the two groups, say sources. Eyewitnesses said the fight erupted after a dispute over the sermon.
Jalandhar, May 24. Curfew was clamped in entire city after followers of Dera Sachkhand and various Dalit bodies today blocked traffic on the national highway here, damaged three buses and torched a vehicle soon after news regarding firing on Sant Niranjan Dass, the Dera head, in Vienna, Austria spread.
The step has been taken to ensure public safety, said deputy commissioner Ajeet Singh Pannu, adding that the curfew would remain enforced till the situation turns normal.
As word of the attack spread, protesters started gathering at Bootan Mandi, the nerve centre of the Dalit community. Soon, youngsters started pelting vehicles with stones. The protest then spread and there were reports of at least 20 vehicles being torched at Prithvi planet, which was completely ransacked by the mob. The protesters, who were wielding swords, laid siege to the vital vehicular arteries of the city – Nakodar Chowk, Garha road, and Rama Mandi – by burning tyres and barricading the roads with motorbikes and other vehicles.
Protesters especially targeted well-established business houses belonging to affluent families in areas of their influence. Power stations were also pelted with stones, as a result the electricity supply was snapped to various parts of the city.
Till the filing of the report, there were long queues of stranded vehicles on Jalandhar-Chandigarh, Jalandhar- Kapurthala, Jalandhar-Ferozepure, Jalandhar-Amritsar national highways, causing great inconvenience to thousands of commuters.
The mob also blocked vehicular traffic in Phagwara for nearly an hour on National Highway No 1 on the overbridge near Sugar Mill crossing.
When contacted the DC and SSP said security has been beefed up at sensitive points to check any untoward incident.
Tension gripped Ludhiana as well after followers of a particular sect staged a dharna and blocked traffic at Jalandhar bypass late in the evening. Serpentine queues of vehicles were witnessed in the area even as the entire NH-1 from Jalandhar bypass to Phillaur toll plaza witnessed massive traffic jams after the clashes in Jalandhar.
A strange bit of news, I think it concerns a Ravidas Temple, but I am surprised about such violence going on in such a place. Anybody with more info ?
Nine hurt in Vienna temple fight
BBC, Sunday, 24 May 2009
At least nine people have been injured during a fight inside a Sikh temple in the Austrian capital Vienna.
Police said five men armed with knives and another with a pistol started a fight in the temple, the BBC’s Bethany Bell reports.
The number of injured is expected to rise, a police spokeswoman said. All six of the armed men were severely injured in the incident and were taken to hospital where they were arrested, our correspondent says.
Preacher ‘attacked’
She says the men were apparently extremists who disagreed with the teachings of the preacher.
The preacher was named as Shri Guru Ravidas Sabha by the Austrian Press Agency.
The six armed men apparently attacked him, prompting his supporters to rush to his aid.
The temple is situated in Vienna-Rudolfsheim, in the 15th district of the capital.
